
Last week, you clocked 50 years. How does it feel to hit the golden age?
It does not feel any different. I am still the same person. It is just that my eyes are less effective. That is the only thing I have noticed. I thank God for his grace and mercy. I am trying to do some things, give back to the society, especially the less privileged. I just want to say thank you to the Lord and encourage and help those in need.
Are there certain things you do to be this fit?
I would say it is the grace of God. I work and travel a lot. But God’s grace has been upon me. I would attribute everything to Him.
Looking back, are there things you did that you wish you had done differently?
I wish I had spent more time with my kids. They are all in college abroad now. I miss them. I was too busy building the church. While they were around, I didn’t have enough time for them. That is the only thing I would call a regret in my life. I feel so bad. I wish I could make up for it, but it is not easy.
Why did you choose to be called an apostle?
I started as a pastor. I got saved in 1983. I was an architect. I loved the Lord, but I didn’t want to be a pastor. I wanted to do business and support the ministry. But several years later, things changed. I found that the Lord wanted me to build a church for him. I pastored the church for about eight years and the Lord began to tell me that my calling was beyond the local church. He told me He was sending me to the nations. An apostle means the sent one. He told me that the picture was beyond sitting down in one local assembly every Sunday morning. He told me He had equipped me with something the nations needed. So, from Year 2000, I began to travel to all the nations of the world to preach the gospel, not as a pastor, but as an apostle.
So you dumped your architecture certificate in order to become a pastor or an apostle as the case may be…
I still do architecture. It is in my blood. I still design houses. I designed this church and I designed my house. I designed the Silverbird Galleria. I do designs every day.
I advise people on what to do. Many bring their designs to me for advice.
Some people believe pastors build churches in order to make money…
I started this church 17 years ago. Seventeen years is not like today. We didn’t have many churches then. There was no guarantee that people would come to your church. It is stupid for anybody to think you are starting a church to make money. An architect stood a better chance of making money than a pastor.I was working with Tom Ikimi. He was one of the best architects in the country then. After then, I had my own practice. I had more prospects of being rich as an architect than a pastor. I went into the ministry when my practice had begun to grow. I got some good jobs. I had to abandon some after the church started. I thought I could combine both, but in three months, the church expanded so much that it was so difficult to combine the two. I had to give up all the jobs I had.But if you are in the ministry because you love the Lord, God will bless you, because He is a good God.
How did your family take it when you decided to leave your profession for the ministry?
Oh my God! My father disowned me. How could I, after spending all his money to train me in the university for six years, come out and say I was going to be a pastor? My wife said she wasn’t ready to marry a pastor. She said she married an architect and not a pastor. I tell you, it was not easy. Everybody revolted. My friends thought I was crazy. You know we have dreams. You sit down in the beer parlour and you dream of how you will live your life. Then all of a sudden, you want to be a pastor. It was not easy. But I loved the Lord so much that I didn’t care about what anybody said. Even if the ministry didn’t work, I wouldn’t have regretted it.
We learnt you started with Chris Okotie’s Household of God church…
I didn’t start with the Household of God. I started with Christ Chapel, where I stayed for three years and six months. Okotie started his own church. Because we were friends from the university, he had stayed in my house, and when he came back from bible school, it was only natural for me to join his church when it started.
Were you a pastor then?
No, I was still an architect. Myself, Chris, his wife then, Tina and Taiwo and Bimbo Odukoya were the fist members of Household of God Church. We cleaned and arranged the church for the very first service. Chris made me the head of the deliverance department.
I served in Household of God for three years and six months, not as a staff, but as a volunteer.
Did you leave because you wanted to have your own church, just like your friend?
No. I left when it was time for me to leave. Remember I told you I didn’t want to be a pastor. I didn’t go to a bible school. Circumstances led to my leaving the Household of God.
But are you still friends with Pastor Chris?
Oh yes. He is my very good friend. He was my best man during my wedding and I was his best man as well.
We learnt you were once a DJ…
I was everything. I was a young man growing up. I wanted to taste life and I had an early run. I got into the university at 18, and at 20, I became the director of socials. It exposed me to a lot of things. After that, I became a DJ with Radio Nigeria. I was a part-time presenter of a disco programme. I was also a DJ at nightclubs. Then, I became a master mixer. My father was a member of the Lorji cult. When I was 21, he initiated me into the cult. I became a Pyrate on campus and I ended up as the head of the Pyrates confraternity at the Enugu Campus of University of Nigeria Nsukka. I was a Capone. I saw life too quick. When I was 25, it was as if I had seen everything. That was when I got saved.
Then life must have been very sweet…
Oh yes. It was very sweet. How did you know? But I thank God for everything. The events made me become who I am today. I have seen everything. There is nothing new again to me. I smoked everything and I drank excessively.
What about women?
I was a crazy Casanova. I was a stupid playboy. I was terrible. I broke a lot of hearts, I tell you.
But you didn’t break your wife’s heart…
No. She refused to get her heart broken.
How did you meet her?
My wife was my friend’s girlfriend.
You took your friend’s girl?
Yes. I liked challenges. I didn’t want easy- to-get girls. I wanted girls who had serious boyfriends so that I could take them away from their boyfriends. She came to my house with her boyfriend and I liked her. I took her number and I found myself calling her. I invited her for a weekend and she came and that was it. She never left again.
So how did your friend take it?
That had always been my trait, so they knew I could do something like that. He really couldn’t do anything. We have been married now for 24 years.
And how has it been for the past 24 years?
It has had its ups and downs but it has been good. I married at 26 and I was very matured. I married because I didn’t want to continue playing. I had a very bad reputation and I was determined to correct that impression. So, we got into marriage and it was rough, because we didn’t know anything. But God helped us. It is better now than it was when we got married.
Did you become born again because you were frustrated with life?
No. Things were very fine for me. I just finished my youth service and I had even started working with Tom Ikimi. I had it all. I had seen life. It was just that I was tired of the bad things. I was tired of the night boogying, I was tired of the Pyrates and I was tired of Lorji. I was even tired of women. So, what else was left for me to do?
Why did you join the cult in the first place?
I thought it would help me to become rich quickly. It is rich men that enter the cult. I thought of all the connection I could get, so I had to join.
Were you threatened when you left?
Oh yes. I spent five years in the cult and they felt I was going to expose all their secrets. Even with the threats, I was not scared because I knew nothing was going to happen to me.
What of your father, did he eventually leave the cult?
Oh yes. At first, my father was scared I was going to die. But when nothing happened to me after I pulled out, he pulled out as well. He was saved. He even lived up to 70 before he died.
As a man of God, do you think it is ideal to leave your calling and run for a political office?
It depends on God’s calling. God can call anybody to do anything. God is not a stereotyped God.
But don’t you think a pastor would lose focus doing the two?
If God called you, you would not. The problem we have is that most of the politicians we have are not called and there is no grace to back them up. They get into a system that is messed up and the system sucks them up as well.
So, if God calls you to run for a political position, you will go…
I will obey God. But I pray He doesn’t.
How do you cope with ladies that dress to seduce men in church?
A man that has a problem with what a lady wears is not well. That means that the person ought to jump into the river because naked people are everywhere. They are in TV, magazines and even on the streets. You have to get to a point where you train yourself not to be moved by things like that. The power of holiness is stronger than sin. When a man makes up his mind to live a life that is pleasing to God, such things do not move him. I don’t care about how ladies dress. It doesn’t get inside of me. I am delivered from that. I am delivered from alcohol. I stay with people who drink alcohol and it does not bug me. I stay with people who smoke and womanise and I don’t feel like joining them. I see women as either my mothers or my daughters.
But have you ever been tempted?
Why not? Who is not tempted? You get tempted but you try not to fall.
We hear your wife is actually the one in charge of the church. She determines who gets what.
A church is not a ministry of local government. People report out of ignorance. There is a structure in place in the church. We have pastors in the church and she is one of them.
But we hear she sacks people anyhow…
It is not like that. Nobody has been sacked in the last 10 years, apart from those that stole.
You obviously have it all, what more can you ask God for?
I just want to know Him more. I don’t want money and fame. I just want to know Him more.